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John
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HellBwat
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 Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:21 am Post subject: Re: Peace at Last |
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On Feb 8, 12:34 pm, John <67vnue6o@knwfv> wrote:
Well John:
Take a look at the posting history since we haven't posted, what has
happened? It just went dead, so is the harping justified or just my
imagination?
Second, I want to thank you so much for the links to Bandler working,
and all you have done is prove what I have been saying all along,
bandler is a hack, he knows nothing about change work and how the
brain actually works when it comes to change. First he used all those
techniques, the phobia cure, the round round thing and if they really
had worked then taking her into that elevator wouldn't have been a
problem what so ever, but as we can see, she did freak. If he had
properly changed her way of doing things, then the elevator, the movie
theater and the plane would have been no problem what so ever.
Instead he had to convince her it was over and make her face her fear,
which eventually won out or did it? He was using the over power
technique which is what nlp is so famous for and btw doesn't work.
He was working strictly in the cognitive part of the brain where the
real problem isn't.
If you watched her reactions to the stimuli, you'd know it doesn't
come from the cognitive part of the brain, because the part of the
brain it is coming from is shutting down or severely limiting access
to the cognitive brain. So working in that area is useless.
I find it amazing that so many think of bandler as a guru of change,
because they don't know any better.
Study the brain and how it works and you too will soon drop that lard
ass for what he really is, a snake oil sales man trying to sell his
bullshit, two for the price of one.
Real world people want real world results, not the hype and theory of
what might be.
I'll be posting your links to another group, should be pretty funny to
see what they have to say about it.
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John
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Peace at Last |
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On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 18:21:13 -0800 (PST), HellBwat
<monsterbrat49@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Feb 8, 12:34 pm, John <67vnue6o@knwfv> wrote:
Well John:
Take a look at the posting history since we haven't posted, what has
happened? It just went dead, so is the harping justified or just my
imagination?
Slowly looks round the corner to see if they have really gone away
for a while
They usually come back though harping on about how the group is
nothing without them.
|
Damm spoke to soon again.
Oh well it was nice while it lasted.
--
John |
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HellBwat
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Peace at Last |
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On Feb 9, 2:55 am, John <67vnue6o@knwfv> wrote:
It will remain quiet for the rest of the month, and thanks for the
link to bandler, you have just proven once and for all, that even the
leader of the nlp cult richard bandler can't get nlp to work. We have
seen the evidence each time he took her to a place she was scared of,
her response to the stimuli. Then he spent the day trying to convince
her she was ok, but in reality she wasn't. If any one out there see's
this as a success then they are as deluded as bandler is. Those who
called him a charlatan were correct, great hypnotist, according to
what was seen, that's a laugh.
Tim
| Quote: |
Damm spoke to soon again.
Oh well it was nice while it lasted.
--
John |
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John
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:36 am Post subject: Re: Peace at Last |
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On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 13:25:44 -0800 (PST), HellBwat
<monsterbrat49@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Feb 9, 2:55 am, John <67vnue6o@knwfv> wrote:
It will remain quiet for the rest of the month,
|
So the crew have all been briefed to stay lurking and keep mum then?
Goodo.
I make the 4 times now (could be 5 though) that you and Tom have
played this little game.
I have yet to work out what you both get from it though since we all
know how the pattern runs now.
Still be grateful John, see you in March.
--
John |
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Tom Vizzini
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Peace at Last |
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| Quote: |
Here's my question: what type of results/responses were YOU
expecting, and why apply them to what he was doing? This isn't a
defending of RB, but in the end it appears she did get the results
she wanted despite the fact she had spent many years in therapy. What
would have been a better response in your opinion?
|
Hi Aaron,
Since you asked :)
I think the problem is that RB claims to be the best in the world. The
inventor of NLP. Master of change. The best hypnotist in the world.
Frankly.... That video was a bit of a let down.
What I saw was an attempt an using metaphors and nested loops. That did not
work. Then he decided to use disassociation and running the movie backwards.
That clearly did not work. Then he used the spinning thing which I though
was a joke but I guess I was wrong. Then he went for classic straight
hypnosis.
Afterwards I did not see any real change at all. She was still terribly
uncomfortable and the real kicker is that RB did not seem to notice.
To me she actually seemed more uncomfortable.
Let me give you an example.
Case Study:
James, who is actually on this list, had a phobia of elevators. That phobia
had generalized out into escalators and several other things. I met James
during a break at someone else's seminar. He asked me about the 3D Mind so I
asked him what his problem was.
7 minutes later I sent him off to ride in an elevator. After 20 minutes of
riding up and down he finally came back out. he was totally comfortable and
was even sticking his arm out when the doors shut.
Here is the link http://www.youtube.com/v/7PrgOjEm_oA&rel=1
7 MINUTES....
What did RB miss?
Because he really does not know how the brain works , He missed a lot. For
some reason even after realizing that the phobia was something that was
everywhere in her life RB still went back to replaying events backwards and
working on the symptom of the problem. He kept running red spinning emotions
backwards while turning them blue trying to overpower the red..
In other words.....he just kept hammering away at the symptom without
getting to the problem that generated the phobia in its present day form. It
seemed as if he was at this for hours throwing everything at her but the
kitchen sink.
The treatment was an obvious failure in anyone's book. In the end it was
shear force of will and pushing by RB that got her through any of the tasks.
Add to that, the pressure of a film crew following you around and the
expectation of being able to perform.
In the end the self proclaimed best in the world got average results that
anyone could have gotten. If you are going to make claims of being
amazing....you better be amazing. Being average or, like in this case, below
average, is just not good enough.
So were the results amazing? I would say no. I know any of 100 average
hypnotists and a few bartenders that could have done just as well or better.
To me, it was obvious what her real problem was. Anyone who really knows
about the brain could have spotted it.
This woman was a secure person with a sense or self empowerment until one
day she was the victim of a hijacking. In that moment everything shifted.
She was suddenly vulnerable, fragile, and powerless. Her entire belief about
herself changed and began to generate symptoms.
Instead of operating as someone self assured, she began to see the world
through the filter of a powerless victim. The problem was not that she had
a phobia of closed places. It was that she always had to have a way of
escape so that she could not be trapped again and be powerless.
RB missed all of that. Instead he tried to overpower the bad red feeling
with a good blue feeling. He tried to disassociate from the feelings. He
tried direct commands and suggestions.
None of those things ever came close to addressing the problem.
To me it was a classic display of what is wrong with NLP.
In the end there was the classic reframe for failure. She is not cured but
she is on the way.
If this is what the best NLPer in the world can do... then the rest must
really suck.
My advice to them....pull that video off the net.
Tom
Real Skills for the Real World
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=TomVizzini
www.essential-skills.com
Gold Members Area
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Taz'sDaddy
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:05 am Post subject: Re: Peace at Last |
|
|
On Feb 10, 8:27 am, "Tom Vizzini" <T...@essential-skills.com> wrote:
Hey,
What's with all the Bandler bashing?
I watched the show, and the work seemed pretty clonky and lengthy to
me, and uncomfortable to the woman too.
However, in the end, to me, it appeared she did get the result.
But even more importantly: IT WAS A GODDAMNED TV SHOW!!
Let's say RB had done the NLP phobia cure and handled it. The segment
would have been 2 minutes long. And visually it would not have been
interesting at all.
I've done shows; they do NOT want to videotape the actual change work
if it is just you and the client/student sitting in a chair. It's
boring and doesn't make for good tv. THEY WANT YOU OUT IN THE FIELD.
Here's something else: I don't recall Bandler ever saying he was the
best hypnotist in the world. THAT IS HOW THE SHOW BILLED HIM. For all
we know, he never made any such claim to the producers. These things
are scripted and edited for dramatic effect. Truth be damned.
Let's see how any of YOU guys do at Bandler's age, in his very ill
health, with cameras rolling under the lights and under the gun.
And anyway, the reality is, without Richard, NONE of us would be here.
I wouldn't have a career and neither would you. Whatever his skill as
a change worker, his skill as a thinker and someone who sees things
outside the box is first rate.
And...the reality is, the NLP phobia cure WORKS. Thousands have used
it and thousands have benefited. Are you bashers saying that the NLP
phobia cure DOES NOT WORK and never has worked? Do all those results
disappear from history because you have issues with Bandler(rightly
perhaps) or because you've come up with something you deem more
effective or more generative? For that matter, do all the cures
Erickson effected get erased from history because you think hypnosis
is clonky?
NLP is not the be-all and end-all of personal change and human
potential, and Bandler as a change worker is not necessarily a valid
comment on NLP as a tool set/methodology for personal change. Any
more that 3-D Mind is the be-all and end-all of personal change or
your own use of it in your personal life is a comment on its
effectiveness as a methodology and set of tools for personal change.
We don't have to swallow NLP(or anything else) whole, nor do we have
to accept any teaching as dogma. But there is line between clarity
and critique and just chest thumping and noise.
RJ
93/93
| Quote: |
Hi Aaron,
Since you asked :)
I think the problem is that RB claims to be the best in the world. The
inventor of NLP. Master of change. The best hypnotist in the world.
Frankly.... That video was a bit of a let down.
What I saw was an attempt an using metaphors and nested loops. That did not
work. Then he decided to use disassociation and running the movie backwards.
That clearly did not work. Then he used the spinning thing which I though
was a joke but I guess I was wrong. Then he went for classic straight
hypnosis.
Afterwards I did not see any real change at all. She was still terribly
uncomfortable and the real kicker is that RB did not seem to notice.
To me she actually seemed more uncomfortable.
Let me give you an example.
Case Study:
James, who is actually on this list, had a phobia of elevators. That phobia
had generalized out into escalators and several other things. I met James
during a break at someone else's seminar. He asked me about the 3D Mind so I
asked him what his problem was.
7 minutes later I sent him off to ride in an elevator. After 20 minutes of
riding up and down he finally came back out. he was totally comfortable and
was even sticking his arm out when the doors shut.
Here is the linkhttp://www.youtube.com/v/7PrgOjEm_oA&rel=1
7 MINUTES....
What did RB miss?
Because he really does not know how the brain works , He missed a lot. For
some reason even after realizing that the phobia was something that was
everywhere in her life RB still went back to replaying events backwards and
working on the symptom of the problem. He kept running red spinning emotions
backwards while turning them blue trying to overpower the red..
In other words.....he just kept hammering away at the symptom without
getting to the problem that generated the phobia in its present day form. It
seemed as if he was at this for hours throwing everything at her but the
kitchen sink.
The treatment was an obvious failure in anyone's book. In the end it was
shear force of will and pushing by RB that got her through any of the tasks.
Add to that, the pressure of a film crew following you around and the
expectation of being able to perform.
In the end the self proclaimed best in the world got average results that
anyone could have gotten. If you are going to make claims of being
amazing....you better be amazing. Being average or, like in this case, below
average, is just not good enough.
So were the results amazing? I would say no. I know any of 100 average
hypnotists and a few bartenders that could have done just as well or better.
To me, it was obvious what her real problem was. Anyone who really knows
about the brain could have spotted it.
This woman was a secure person with a sense or self empowerment until one
day she was the victim of a hijacking. In that moment everything shifted.
She was suddenly vulnerable, fragile, and powerless. Her entire belief about
herself changed and began to generate symptoms.
Instead of operating as someone self assured, she began to see the world
through the filter of a powerless victim. The problem was not that she had
a phobia of closed places. It was that she always had to have a way of
escape so that she could not be trapped again and be powerless.
RB missed all of that. Instead he tried to overpower the bad red feeling
with a good blue feeling. He tried to disassociate from the feelings. He
tried direct commands and suggestions.
None of those things ever came close to addressing the problem.
To me it was a classic display of what is wrong with NLP.
In the end there was the classic reframe for failure. She is not cured but
she is on the way.
If this is what the best NLPer in the world can do... then the rest must
really suck.
My advice to them....pull that video off the net.
Tom
Real Skills for the Real Worldhttp://www.youtube.com/profile?user=TomVizziniwww.essential-skills.com
Gold Members Area
3D Mind |
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HellBwat
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: Re: Peace at Last |
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On Feb 13, 1:05 am, "Taz'sDaddy" <sandwor...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Feb 10, 8:27 am, "Tom Vizzini" <T...@essential-skills.com> wrote:
Where did she get results? Because they said so? Sure that is solid |
evidence how stupid of me not to be able to see that.
| Quote: |
However, in the end, to me, it appeared she did get the result.
|
Yes, a tv show designed to show people how nlp works and the great and
almighty richard bandler, what a poor showing.
| Quote: |
But even more importantly: IT WAS A GODDAMNED TV SHOW!!
|
That is not the point, the point is he did a lot of things to her and
none of it worked, but I am betting the general public doesn't know
any better and will think, wow.
| Quote: |
Let's say RB had done the NLP phobia cure and handled it. The segment
would have been 2 minutes long. And visually it would not have been
interesting at all.
That is a given, of course they are only going to show clips to keep |
it interesting, but the end result was her in the elevator, freaking
out, if you call that good work, well it's you, no wonder.
| Quote: |
I've done shows; they do NOT want to videotape the actual change work
if it is just you and the client/student sitting in a chair. It's
boring and doesn't make for good tv. THEY WANT YOU OUT IN THE FIELD.
|
Ok, so saying that statement, some people say I am the greatest
hypnotist in the world wasn't alluding to himself? Your right truth be
damned.
| Quote: |
Here's something else: I don't recall Bandler ever saying he was the
best hypnotist in the world. THAT IS HOW THE SHOW BILLED HIM. For all
we know, he never made any such claim to the producers. These things
are scripted and edited for dramatic effect. Truth be damned.
|
I am one year younger than bandler and I guess if I was a coke
sniffing, alcoholic, I would probably be in as bad a shape as he is,
you seem to forget a simple thing, he brought his bad health upon
himself.
| Quote: |
Let's see how any of YOU guys do at Bandler's age, in his very ill
health, with cameras rolling under the lights and under the gun.
|
That is pure and utter bullshit, John Grinder was the driving force
behind nlp, bandler just stole the glory.
So we would all still be here, and if they hadn't come along someone
would have sooner or later.
| Quote: |
And anyway, the reality is, without Richard, NONE of us would be here.
I wouldn't have a career and neither would you. Whatever his skill as
a change worker, his skill as a thinker and someone who sees things
outside the box is first rate.
|
This is why your so deluded, he used the phobia cure on that woman and
it didn't work, her being in the elevator, the theater, and plane ride
was pure evidence of that, now what you saying it did work?
watch the clips again and watch the woman again, a blind man couldn't
have missed that one, oh I forgot, it's you, the guy with his head so
far up his ass he pretty much misses most obvious things.
Would you like some links showing from studies that nlp indeed does
not work? But then you have other factors at work, which could make it
seem as if nlp does work.
| Quote: |
And...the reality is, the NLP phobia cure WORKS. Thousands have used
it and thousands have benefited. Are you bashers saying that the NLP
phobia cure DOES NOT WORK and never has worked? Do all those results
disappear from history because you have issues with Bandler(rightly
perhaps) or because you've come up with something you deem more
effective or more generative? For that matter, do all the cures
Erickson effected get erased from history because you think hypnosis
is clonky?
|
So what now, more excuses, hell nlp folks can't even agree as to what
nlp actually is, let alone use it to any degree.
| Quote: |
NLP is not the be-all and end-all of personal change and human
potential, and Bandler as a change worker is not necessarily a valid
comment on NLP as a tool set/methodology for personal change. Any
more that 3-D Mind is the be-all and end-all of personal change or
your own use of it in your personal life is a comment on its
effectiveness as a methodology and set of tools for personal change.
|
No we don't, I agree ( grudgingly ) There was no chest thumping here,
when I first watched it, my jaw just dropped at how crappy richard
proved nlp to be and what even amazed me more was his lack of
calibration and trying to force the change on her and his shitty
explanation that change takes time.
and his claim that he has studied brain science and if he really knew
anything about it, he would know that nlp and it's modalities work in
the cognitive part of the brain, and you above all people should know
that the problem is in the limbic part of the brain. Something I think
richie missed in brain science 101.
I don't buy anything any more from anyone, including anything from Tom
and Kim, because I want to be sure of something, have a solid
foundation and therefore most people can't bullshit me any more. If
you want to defend bandler and make excuses for his failures, well
that is your prerogative, but truth is truth, and he displayed the
fact that he can't get someone to change unless he is bullying them.
Tim
| Quote: |
We don't have to swallow NLP(or anything else) whole, nor do we have
to accept any teaching as dogma. But there is line between clarity
and critique and just chest thumping and noise.
RJ |
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HellBwat
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Peace at Last |
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On Feb 13, 1:05 am, "Taz'sDaddy" <sandwor...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
Besides, he was no better than Dr. Phil, I watched Dr. Phil one time
try to help a man, and at the end the poor man was more confused than
ever. I think it is just sad that people are duped by people like
richard and dr. phil, that all the time, just because they have some
kind of authority, when in fact they are clueless.
Your friend in Christ
UnKaH Timmy |
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John
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Peace at Last |
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On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 13:25:44 -0800 (PST), HellBwat
<monsterbrat49@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Feb 9, 2:55 am, John <67vnue6o@knwfv> wrote:
It will remain quiet for the rest of the month,
|
Oh dear another promis broken.
As you all seem to like a challenge how about a bet of $10,000 that
you and the rest of the 3D crowd could not stay away 'till the end of
the month.
If that works may we could increase it to the end of the year.
--
John |
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Tom Vizzini
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Peace at Last |
|
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"Taz'sDaddy" <sandworm77@ca.rr.com> wrote in message
news:2fd636cc-31ff-4903-a29d-e527ecebf993@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 10, 8:27 am, "Tom Vizzini" <T...@essential-skills.com> wrote:
Hey,
What's with all the Bandler bashing?
- No Bandler bashing. Just observation. My observation is that is was
embarrassing to watch. It did not work. The self proclaimed "best in the
world" looked real bad. |
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Taz'sDaddy
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:02 am Post subject: Re: Peace at Last |
|
|
On Feb 13, 8:34 am, "Tom Vizzini" <T...@essential-skills.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Taz'sDaddy" <sandwor...@ca.rr.com> wrote in message
news:2fd636cc-31ff-4903-a29d-e527ecebf993@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 10, 8:27 am, "Tom Vizzini" <T...@essential-skills.com> wrote:
Hey,
What's with all the Bandler bashing?
- No Bandler bashing. Just observation. My observation is that is was
embarrassing to watch. It did not work. The self proclaimed "best in the
world" looked real bad.
|
Calling him a "hack" sounds like bashing to me.
I would like to see ANYONE on this forum do better on a scripted TV
show where they FORCE you to go out in the field and DEMAND you show
them something that has drama in it.
And damn it, give credit where it is due, without having to ignore the
flaws and BS either.
Without RB, I wouldn't have a career, nor would you, Tom, or anyone
who has used the NLP methodology.
And RB's ability to use NLP isn't a necessary or logical comment on
whether any of NLP works.
I have used the NLP phobia cure many times with students, early in my
career, and it usually(but not always) did the job.
Is it your position, Tom, that the NLP phobia cure doesn't work, has
NEVER worked, and can't possibly work?
Is it your position that Erickson never affected powerful change with
hypnosis, and that those who implement his methods are all frauds,
hacks, etc?
Are you claiming that your methodology is the ONLY one that works,
ever has worked and ever WILL worked?
What exactly ARE you saying about NLP having any effective tools?
RJ
http://www.speedseduction.biz/nailyourinnergamepromo.php |
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Taz'sDaddy
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Peace at Last |
|
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On Feb 12, 11:32 pm, HellBwat <monsterbra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Feb 13, 1:05 am, "Taz'sDaddy" <sandwor...@ca.rr.com> wrote:> On Feb 10, 8:27 am, "Tom Vizzini" <T...@essential-skills.com> wrote:
|
| Quote: |
I don't buy anything any more from anyone, including anything from Tom
and Kim, because I want to be sure of something, have a solid
foundation and therefore most people can't bullshit me any more.
|
Are you implying that Tom and Kim bullshit people to get them to buy
things are that
they don't have solid foundations that allow you to be sure that you
are getting
your money's worth?
Dude, I'd be ducking right about now if I were you....
RJ
93/93
.
| Quote: |
Tim
We don't have to swallow NLP(or anything else) whole, nor do we have
to accept any teaching as dogma. But there is line between clarity
and critique and just chest thumping and noise.
RJ |
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HellBwat
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Peace at Last |
|
|
On Feb 13, 8:02 pm, "Taz'sDaddy" <sandwor...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
He really did look bad, you have to admit that.
| Quote: |
- No Bandler bashing. Just observation. My observation is that is was
embarrassing to watch. It did not work. The self proclaimed "best in the
world" looked real bad.
|
Well if he talks like a hack, sounds like a hack, acts like a hack,
chances are pretty good he is a hack.
| Quote: |
Calling him a "hack" sounds like bashing to me.
|
Get me the show and I'll show you how it is done, then you get to
watch real time reactions to someone who has really been changed, that
show wasn't about drama, it was about the world's greatest hypnotist
preforming his magic. Which fizzled out big time.
| Quote: |
I would like to see ANYONE on this forum do better on a scripted TV
show where they FORCE you to go out in the field and DEMAND you show
them something that has drama in it.
|
Ok, what credit is he due? He basically showed the world how not to
cure someone.
| Quote: |
And damn it, give credit where it is due, without having to ignore the
flaws and BS either.
|
Sorry but Grinder was the driving force of nlp, along with Dilts and
others who contributed. Bandler might have been one of the co-
founders, but he was never the driving force, he just hogged the
glory, which is consistent with his personality. You, sir, on the
other hand do give credit where credit is due.
| Quote: |
Without RB, I wouldn't have a career, nor would you, Tom, or anyone
who has used the NLP methodology.
|
WHAT?????? One of the founding members of nlp with 30 plus years of
experience isn't a statement of whether nlp works or not, when he
failed miserably? If you used SS on women and it didn't work, is that
a statement of whether ss really works or not?
| Quote: |
And RB's ability to use NLP isn't a necessary or logical comment on
whether any of NLP works.
|
and do you have any clue as to why it did work? Because your
presenting yourself as an authority and with that fact in mind, the
placebo effect took place. The placebo is over looked but if done
right can produce powerful change. Here is a link well worth reading.
http://www.mheap.com/placebo.html
| Quote: |
I have used the NLP phobia cure many times with students, early in my
career, and it usually(but not always) did the job.
|
Tom has never said that, I never said that, our position is that it
works some of the time, about as well as a, guess what, a placebo and
if you had studied anything about the brain you would also know that
nlp works primarily in the outer layer of the brain ( cognitive )
where as the problem is in the limbic part of the brain.
| Quote: |
Is it your position, Tom, that the NLP phobia cure doesn't work, has
NEVER worked, and can't possibly work?
|
Erickson knew what he was doing, so did Virgina, and Fritz, they knew
how to motivate people into change. Remember I used to have just about
every book ever written on nlp, but when I finally figured out nlp was
virtually worthless, I got rid of them. Sure I still use aspects of
nlp, like when someone is having a really hard emotional state, I have
them move it away to lessen the effects and then are more easy to work
with.
| Quote: |
Is it your position that Erickson never affected powerful change with
hypnosis, and that those who implement his methods are all frauds,
hacks, etc?
|
I can say for a fact, hell no, but it is one that works consistantly,
but you wouldn't know that because you still have no idea how it
works, and you having been to his seminars have seen it work again and
again, with almost seemingly miraculous results. You have also seen
Tom and Kim help people who couldn't be helped by nlp trainers. This
isn't about who has the biggest dick ( even though I do ) but what
works and what doesn't.
| Quote: |
Are you claiming that your methodology is the ONLY one that works,
ever has worked and ever WILL worked?
|
Nope, not at all, reframing, great tool, sleight of mouth, utter
bullshit, modality shifting can be useful, but not for heavy duty
change, there are lots of tools in nlp that I use occasionally, but a
venue for change, not really. Key point is that nlp works in the wrong
part of the brain. If you had stayed in class instead of having to go
do yoga and take your naps, and your mediation you would have learned
this stuff.
You can continue to make excuses for richard if you like, but folks in
the know, know.
| Quote: |
What exactly ARE you saying about NLP having any effective tools?
|
Your Bubba in Christ
UnkaH Timbo
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HellBwat
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Peace at Last |
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On Feb 13, 2:53 am, John <67vnue6o@knwfv> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 13:25:44 -0800 (PST), HellBwat
monsterbra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Feb 9, 2:55 am, John <67vnue6o@knwfv> wrote:
|
If you can guarantee 10,000, shit I'll shut up for the rest of the
year.
Now you have to agree that this is a discussion and not the flame war
that usually ensue.
I haven't been to awfully bad to RJ. Must be my nice part trying to
get out.
UnkaH
| Quote: |
Oh dear another promise broken.
As you all seem to like a challenge how about a bet of $10,000 that
you and the rest of the 3D crowd could not stay away 'till the end of
the month.
If that works may we could increase it to the end of the year.
--
John |
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